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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 4:15:47 GMT -5
Hello,
So the current idea is to do a prospect draft for the 2014 and 2015 draft which I think is not ideal. This means that clearly talented players from earlier drafts who haven't reached the 82 games yet are only eligible for the main draft, and subsequently players like Ekblad (who has played 81 games and is a strong force on his team) are a prospect. I think this is not what we want, although I can be wrong. In that case just say so.
I thought it would be better that players ONLY eligible for the prospect draft are 24 years or younger AND must meet one of the following requirements:
1) 82 regular season games or less played. All players from 2014/2015 are in the prospect draft now amongst others 2) 25 regular season games or less played. With this option we also put the main players from recent drafts (Ekblad, Drouin etc) in the main live drafts. Players who havent played a lot of games yet will go in the prospect draft.
So my suggestion is 24 years or younger and 1 or 2. Let me know what you think.
Cheers.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 10:02:21 GMT -5
Hey Sarnia - looks like you and I are practically on the same page. Here is an excerpt of an email I had sent to Soo earlier:
A minor player by rule is a player with less than 82 regular season games. This definition is needed to control eligibility for the minor team rosters and makes perfect sense.
IMO, there also needs to another definition of a prospect player. This definition limits/controls who can be drafted in the main draft VS the prospect draft.
With you going with the realism theme to the league - I would think that you would want to go with the NHL's definition of a rookie/prospect which is:
1 - less than 26 regular season games played 2 - less than 26 years old on Sept 15th of each season
So with that you could say, all prospects are minors BUT all minors are not prospects.
With both definitions, it would clear up confusion as to what players can be drafted in each of the drafts.
For example, take Andrew Hammond. He does not qualify as a prospect due to his age (27) but because he only has 25 games he could be placed on the minor roster. He would qualify to be drafted in the main draft because he's not a prospect.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 10:39:56 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm ok with 26 as well and agree with the reasoning of prospects/minors.
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Post by London Knights on Sept 1, 2015 11:17:32 GMT -5
Good idea Scott. I think realism is key, and since there shouldn't be any grey areas regarding this, should we adopt NHL rules?
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Post by Soo Greyhounds on Sept 1, 2015 23:13:28 GMT -5
www.wingingitinmotown.com/2013/7/26/4548948/getting-to-know-the-cba-episode-7-waiversHere is a good article on the NHL's CBA. Prospect eligibility in our league is utilized in place of the NHL's CBA regarding waiver eligibility to minor league teams. It would be impossible for us to follow the real rules. To me being realistic isn't as much about replicating the NHL's rules as it is giving our GM's the same control and flexibility to produce a similar experience to a real GM. A real GM has control over when his team is ready for said prospect, we should also have some of the same privilege. Just because Florida's roster is weak and they rush your prospect, why should you have to be victim of their decision? Maybe your team is strong and isn't ready for that player, you are suppose to be the GM of your team after all. If anything I question if 82 games is enough given our depth vs the NHL's, I was originally thinking 100 games. Outside of elite talents, most young players aren't serviceable fantasy players until around 100+ games. This is something that may have to be tweaked in the coming seasons to align properly to our leagues conditions. You have to consider the fact that the NHL has 30 teams and our league only has 16. Our main rosters and prospect pools are going to be much deeper than a NHL team. In order to balance the ability to build competitive rosters and strong prospect pools we need more flexibility to manage our greater level of depth. If we limited prospect eligibility to 26 games could you imagine how weak rebuilding teams would become in order to hold onto their young players? How hard would it be for a contending team to manage a prospect pool? You would virtually be creating an environment where contending teams would have to drop young players in order to compete and rebuilding teams would have drop legit roster players to maintain their building blocks. This would limit your management decisions to either rebuild or win, there would be no in-between. -I have no issues adding an age limit I agree that a true prospect draft would be ideal. My issue with this is that I have no idea how to make it work. I have no clue how to remove all of the prospects from the draft board without manually going through one by one and removing every single prospect. Keep in mind that we are having a live main draft. Given the often rushed circumstances to make a selection during live drafts, how many teams could make a mistake and select a prospect (especially if we kept the 82 game rule)? These players would have to be removed from their teams resulting in wasted draft selections. I guess the current settings are to keep things simplified. Our prospect draft would start before the live draft, so ideally we would have the first couple rounds complete removing most of the appealing prospects that teams would be likely to select during main draft. If anyone has any ideas on how we could accomplish this, I am all ears. If somebody is willing to donate their time and go through the player list and remove EVERY single prospect, I will gladly let you do it.
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Post by Soo Greyhounds on Sept 2, 2015 16:33:57 GMT -5
Let me know if anyone has any ideas on how to remove prospects from the draft board! I am hoping that once we purchase Fantrax Premium and become eligible to download the player list spreadsheet, there could be an option to remove prospects. If anyone currently has access to Premium you should try and find out if it is possible.
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Post by Flint Firebirds on Sept 2, 2015 16:48:14 GMT -5
I wasn't able to in my premium league but we drafted months ago so I can't try now
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 9:52:06 GMT -5
Kinda late response but I was busy.
In response to you Greyhounds I have to admit I don't really know how fantrax works. However, I think we should do a games played and age limit (don't care if games is 26 or 82 or age is 24 or 26) but I think if we don't do it, it feels a bit like an odd and unrealistic draft.
I don't believe it is possible to remove players from a draft and I also don't think it is necessary. I just ran a new draft on fantrax who had an age and games played limit. The main draft was live and the prospect draft in a thread on fantrax. This actually went quite well and only one person made a mistake selecting a player.
I have to add we had 5 hours to select a player so a shorter time period will make it harder. However if someone makes an illegal selection always one person will notice and we can pause the draft for a short while and reset the selection.
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Post by Soo Greyhounds on Sept 8, 2015 15:53:02 GMT -5
I have been thinking a lot on it and I am starting to lean towards going with a legit prospect draft. It will certainly have to be a league wide effort to catch any mistakes immediately so we can pause and correct the error. Keep in mind we haven't decided on a draft window but it is certainly going to be very short. Let's try to get some more opinions and ideas regarding this.
Here is a very rough idea at what we would be looking at if we were to do this -Main Draft: Any player who has played 82 NHL games or less cannot be selected during the live main draft. -Prospect Draft: Only players who have played less than 82 NHL games and are under the age of (?) can be selected at this draft
I also am seeking some opinions on lowering the goalie minor/prospect limit. 82 games is just to much for a goaltender.
What do you guys suggest we make the age limit for prospects.. Somewhere between 24-26 would be ideal in my opinion
Anyone have any concerns on the salary cap number?
Anyone have anything else to add? We got to implement these changes before we start the prospect draft which I'm hoping will be in the next few days.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 16:22:21 GMT -5
Cool, fine with 82 games and either 26 or 24 for skaters.
I would say 26 or 27 for goalies and maybe half amount of games? Number is quite arbitrary but important because lot of good goalies are close.
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Post by Flint Firebirds on Sept 8, 2015 16:57:49 GMT -5
A general rule I've seen in numerous leagues including my own was 24 or less for skaters and 26 or less for goalies with games less than 45 for goalies
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 16:00:17 GMT -5
So we can do Skaters: 24 years or less AND 82 games or less and Goalies: 26 years or less AND 45 games or less
if someone else has a different idea we might put it up to a vote?
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Post by Soo Greyhounds on Sept 9, 2015 17:14:33 GMT -5
Sounds pretty reasonable. Anyone else have any input?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 21:23:22 GMT -5
Somewhere between 24-26 would be ideal in my opinion Regardless of what age we agree upon, we are also going to have to specify a point of reference to that age, ie. 24yo when the season begins OR 26yo on Sept 1st OR whatever... I go back to my prior post in suggesting we use what the NHL uses for age from the Rookie definition: less than 26 years old on Sept 15th. For the number of games, I'm ok with what's been getting kicked around. My preference would still go back to NHL ruling which is less than 26 games for both skaters and goalies instead of having separate limits for both. That's just my opinion. I'm willing to go with what ever the league as a whole decides to go with. In the end, we are all playing with the same rules so it's fair no matter what.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 8:50:08 GMT -5
I'm good with that age limit, putting it on sept 15th. We can vote for the # of games I guess!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 8:53:52 GMT -5
So I think we have the options:
1) <24 yrs on 15 sept and 82 games or less for skaters + <26 yrs on 15 sept and 45 games or less for goalies
2) <26 yrs on 15 sept for both skaters and goalies and 82 games or less for skaters + 45 games or less for goalies
3) <26 yrs on 15 sept and <26 games for both skaters and goalies (official rookie rules)
Remind me if it was younger than 24/26 years or 24/26 and less.
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Post by Soo Greyhounds on Sept 10, 2015 16:16:22 GMT -5
The only option Fantrax gives you is "Player age up to start of season is (age)." I'm not sure what the exact date Fantrax considers the start of the season.
I am fine with either ages 24 or 26 for skaters and 82-100 games played. Goalies certainly need to be at least age 26 maybe even 27 and 45 games played seems like a decent number.
If somebody wants, feel free to make a poll as long as the options are within the limits we discussed. If not tomorrow when I get more free time I'll move forward with it.
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Post by Soo Greyhounds on Sept 10, 2015 16:56:44 GMT -5
I do have to put my foot down on the idea of lowering to 26 games for skaters though, Sorry Scott! Keep in mind there are only two rosters here, as we discussed (the main roster and minor roster). Prospects/minors are considered the same thing in this league. 82 games is bare minimum. If anything going up to 100 games might be the thing to do. Looking at a sorted list of players with less than 82 games and NO age limits (which will further refine this list). There are only a few players on this list that would make a competitive roster. Look at how quickly the talent drops off. Not to many of these players would you want to have on your main roster. Imagine what that list would look like if the limit was 26 games played.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2015 17:17:25 GMT -5
I do have to put my foot down on the idea of lowering to 26 games for skaters though, Sorry Scott! Haha! That is fine. Like I said earlier, we all end up playing with same rules so it's not a problem for me. You've shown with your last post that it looks to be OK with going with the 82 games.
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Post by Mississauga Steelheads on Sept 11, 2015 8:52:27 GMT -5
I do have to put my foot down on the idea of lowering to 26 games for skaters though, Sorry Scott! Keep in mind there are only two rosters here, as we discussed (the main roster and minor roster). Prospects/minors are considered the same thing in this league. 82 games is bare minimum. If anything going up to 100 games might be the thing to do. Looking at a sorted list of players with less than 82 games and NO age limits (which will further refine this list). There are only a few players on this list that would make a competitive roster. Look at how quickly the talent drops off. Not to many of these players would you want to have on your main roster. Imagine what that list would look like if the limit was 26 games played. Soo makes an excellent point, 82 should be the bare minimum, most players in the NHL who are on their two way ELC will play over 100 games before signing their second NHL contract with a one way provision.
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